Show #381 Quantum Kids: Why combined therapies do better justice to our kids’ health, with Cole Clayton & Jalal Khan


About this show:

We have more specialists than ever before, yet we are sicker than ever before. That’s why I am thrilled to bring you this week’s show, because it’s a story of two practitioners. This is a treat if you are a parent and: 

  • You’re struggling to pinpoint what your child’s breathing, behavioural, focus, congestion, crooked teeth, or headache issues are stemming from when you’ve tried lots of things.
  • You think there might be a link between an ‘event’ and your child’s current issues (a fall, a trauma, a bone break…)
  • You want the money you spend on your child’s teeth (it’s a LOT these days!) to actually amount to solutions and lasting results. 
  • You crave a new paradigm where we move away from the world where we’re sicker than ever, we have more specialists than ever, and you hate the merry-go-round you’ve been on with your kid, spending lots with few results
  • You love big-picture thinking when it comes to health
  • You want to have more empowered conversations about your child’s health with your primary care doctor or dentist and be better versed in issues that could be at play. 


Share it far and wide with parents you know, and I’ll also say, super useful for adults who’ve had long-term musculoskeletal or dental/jaw structure issues to look at the bigger picture for yourself, too. 


Enjoy the show, 

Alexx Stuart

Founder of Low Tox Life and the Low Tox movement

Join me on Insta @lowtoxlife


Questions we explore in the show:

  • What got you guys – a dentist and osteopath – working together
  • What is it that drives your work (each taking turns) 
  • Cole, the first time you joined me on the show, our discussion of oro-fascial myology was quite pioneering – what have you learned/seen and been excited about most these past 7 years? 
  • Let’s talk about how brain growth drives the growth of the skull  – wowser: …
  • How does this then affect the growth and shape of the face and teeth? 
  • Osteopathic philosophy of the body’s inherent healing capacity – the Primary Respiratory Mechanism
  • Traumas and injuries disrupt this system of growth – is this about the communication between the body’s systems? The brain and growth factors? Or something else going on? How do you both define trauma/injuries? Some worse than others? 
  • Can we then talk about clearing/correcting trauma and injury impact proactively? 
  • Let’s talk about different forms of ‘growth’ – Mechanical growth versus physiological or “biomimetic” growth
  • How can we harness these forces/different growth modes/types, using dental appliances to get changes that even shock you? 
  • How much active work do people do lifestyle-change-wise alongside using dental appliances for the long-term health of the system and structural change? 
  • Let’s talk “Breathing” – It’s not just about Co2 and o2 is it? 
  • Breath-work is a dime a dozen of creators online, systems, protocols, thought-leaders and scientific research papers – it’s easy to get overwhelmed wanting to become a ‘better breather’ and the stress of the info overload can easily lead to paralysis/inaction… Can you help with some empowering focuses here as people explore this topic for themselves and with their kids? 
  • How critical is natural sunlight to the health of our growth? 
  • And conversely, dare I bring up screens and potential issues on that front? 
  • Let’s recap signs that kids are not sleeping well and how best to navigate this with curiosity to help them improve it – main levers we can start to work on/explore. 
  • Making sure we are looking at kids’ “Airway” being clear is no longer enough, you say – are you talking about a situation where they’re stuffed up, not breathing well, and an ENT might suggest adenoid/tonsil removal and then we all think we’re ‘DONE’ working on this?
  • If we could all have a project for the week to work on or incorporate something for better sleep and breathing this week for us and the kids – what would the most powerful thing we would do each day be?



Thank you to this month’s show sponsor for helping you make your low tox swaps easier:


Ausclimate continues giving 10% off their Winix Air Purifiers and Dehumidifiers at CODE: LOWTOXLIFE at checkout 

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Be sure to join me on Instagram @lowtoxlife and tag me with your shares and AHAs of this week’s episode.



About Cole Clayton & Jalal Khan:

Cole Clayton and Jalal Khan started The Quantum Kid after a mutual friend insisted they meet or she would force them! Within 6 months their business is achieving goals they set for 2-3 years. After combined 30 years of focused effort The Quantum Kid was an overnight success. 


Cole and Jalal set about to create a formula unique in healthcare, an approach to helping kids thrive that involves both practitioners working together in the same room to ensure the structures of the face, jaws and skull are ideally aligned. Rather than focus on the face, teeth, tongues or jaws, alone their approach focuses on the 3 dimension nature of the skull and how the nerves, connective tissue and blood supply rely so much on the cranium itself growing and functioning well. Throw in some breathing and face exercises plus simple quantum health principles and The Quantum Kid is evolving to be a truly unique system for families wanting a whole health solution. 


Connect with Cole and Jalal on the following platforms;

Websites —  and 

Instagram — @the.quantum.kid @k2calibre @coleclaytonosteopath



More about this month’s sponsors:

Thank you to this month’s sponsors for partnering with our show and helping you make your swaps with their special offer:

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Offer: Ausclimate is now giving all Low Tox Life followers an EXTRA 10% OFF their already discounted prices. Simply enter the discount code of LOWTOXLIFE on check out via:

This discount can also be redeemed for over-the-phone orders verbally.








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Title show track, by LIOR.

Love the podcast music? You will hear excerpts from Lior’s track “Caught Up”  – go check it out on iTunes or Spotify if you want to hear the whole song or album, Scattered Reflections. Co-written with Cameron Deyell, it’s a great song and I love the reflective energy of it – perfect for the show, right? Enjoy. Lior is always touring, so do check out his website. It is wonderful to hear him sing live, trust me.

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If you would love reading like me or you just simply want to go through the full transcript, you can check below.

[Alexx] (0:00 – 8:55)

If you’ve been feeling like the specialist siloed healthcare model is a bit broken, then today’s show is definitely for you as we look at what it means when an osteopath and a dentist come together to help families. Hello and welcome to the Low Tox Life podcast. I’m Alexx Stewart, your host and founder of the huge welcome to anyone tuning in for the first time to the show.


You have everything indexed into the different categories of leading a Low Tox Life at your disposal. If you want to dive into any particular area over at and then you hit the podcast tab and then you hit the index page and boom, food, body, home, mind, alternative therapies, families, chronic illness, it’s all there for you. Now, today’s show is a really special one because I had Cole Clayton on the show a number of years ago.


In fact, he was one of my first guests. Why? Because I was really interested in the work he was doing as a breathing coach, interested in functional myology and how we could get kids to breathe better and what that could do to impact their sleep, their behavior, their ability to focus in a classroom, their ability to regulate their nervous systems.


And for me, it was just seminal work at the time and it’s actually helped a lot of low tox’s since. And of course, we have had the subject and the impact of breathing well when we’re awake and when we’re asleep explode in our understanding of how important it is to overall health. And so I’ve stayed in touch with Cole over the years and I was only so thrilled to see that he had joined forces with Jalal, my other guest today.


It’s a two guest show because they decided to come together and see whether their work as a dentist. So Jalal Khan is a dentist and Cole’s work as an osteopath could combine together to supply families with a more holistic form of health care, applying functional, a holistic approach to the structure of faces, jaws, the positioning of teeth, the way kids are breathing, and if they work together and shared cases, how that could impact the health of the child. And in today’s show, we go deep into some of the things that they noticed along their way, why they decided working together rather than separately would be a better way to have an impact in the work that they did as individual practitioners, and what the quantum kid is about as a concept, as well as in practice with some really fantastic tips at the end to help, you know, some of the things that you could do to move the needle. Now, I also think this is useful for adults who’ve had persistent breathing issues, sleep apnea maybe, always felt a bit lethargic in their days, never really quite understood why, because some of the timelining work we talk about can actually help pinpoint certain events that happened in your life, usually some sort of physical trauma, structural trauma, like a big bang or big fall, that could actually have set the wheels in motion for a lifelong set of issues that you’ve never quite gotten to the bottom of. So it’s not just for the kids, it’s also for people who are interested in the area of functional work where specialists are coming together more and more, discussing cases cross-discipline, and then, of course, the whole sleeping ENT jaw structure piece as well.


So I’m going to hook into that chat in a minute. We have the wonderful Weleda Australia, who are giving our Weleda-loving Aussies 20% off-site-wide with the code LOWTOXLIFE this month. I wanted to highlight their new pomegranate range, the firming range that they put out recently, beautiful glass, a recycled package, those gorgeous glass jars that we saw in their new skin food face range last year, is now coming through to this pomegranate range.


Luxurious little pots, and it’s just such a luscious cream that’s both hydrating when you first put it on, but then just kind of disappears, doesn’t feel heavy. So if you love that kind of feel in your skincare, as well as fancying a little bit of firming, the macopeptides in there, very helpful for that in the research. It’s a gorgeous Low Tox company that’s been going for over a century now, providing beautiful skincare and lovely homeopathic medicines like Arnica, my favourite thing of all time for bumps, bruises, cuts, circulation.


And I just adore the range. So 20% off is huge, especially if you’re just wanting something for the first time, sort of peeping into the LOW TOX space and you wanted to try something, you have several different ranges to choose from for face and body, in terms of what natural fragrances appeal to you as well. And I actually did a reel on Instagram, at LOWTOXLIFE, you can find me there anytime, talking about the word fragrance, because sometimes people are confused when you see that word, is it always bad?


And I actually have a good little three-minute tutorial on how to become a better detective when you see that word, and when it means that it could be something not so great, as well as when it’s a-okay, and how to kind of weigh up your green and red flags in those situations. So if that’s interesting to you, head to Instagram, it was just a few days ago, or you can just look back if you’re listening to this down the track. And then of course, our major sponsor Ausclimate, who have a wonderful range of Winix air purifiers, my favourite dehumidifiers with the best, most powerful motors to suck all that extra moisture out.


And an interesting question that came up on Insta this week, actually, was around, well, I don’t want to over-dry our indoor spaces, how do I know if I’m over-drying them? So if you have everything, a two-bedroom apartment, I always use my place as an example, then you can extrapolate out. We have a 16 litre for after showers in the bathroom, keeping the bathroom bone dry and never growing mould.


And then we use that one as well in the laundry and smaller bedroom. Then we use the big 50 litre across our living, dining and master bedroom. And we use these when it’s humid in December through February here in Sydney, and as well when it’s raining, like when you have a big stretch of rain that goes for longer than a day.


These are the times we use it, and you can set them to a particular humidity. So I set them to 45 if it’s really bucketing down and I want full power capacity happening, but I set them to 50 otherwise, if it’s just a humid season. 50 is a really nice sweet spot where your skin doesn’t dry out, your nasal passages don’t dry out.


And so I just wanted to mention that in case that helps you know to use it. And you don’t need to have them on all the time in the same rooms. Rotating through every two days is perfect, because remember it’s the over 60% humidity, and then for more than two days at a time.


That’s when you want to dry things out to prevent mould from growing on soft furnishings through dust and other food. So 10% off, code LOWTOXLIFE, and that actually works on their new heating range as well that they have. And it also works if they’ve got sails on, so your 10% will be on top of that.


So keep an eye, because they do them often, and it can help you save a ton of cash. Now let us look at what being a quantum kid is all about, and this wonderful mission that Cole and Jalal are on. Enjoy.


Dentist and an osteopath walk into a bar. How did you guys start working together?


[Cole/Jalal] (8:56 – 9:02)

And Barman says, what’s with the long face? It’s a cranial strain.


[Alexx] (9:03 – 9:32)

I was going to say nutrient deficiencies. And Jalal, do you want to step us through like a story of working with a kid and how that looks in terms of when you decide, you know, because often it’d be someone who would come to you first thinking it’s a dental issue, and then you’re like, I think I need Cole to look at this one, and vice versa.


[Cole/Jalal] (9:32 – 11:37)

Yeah, that’s a really, really good question to start off with, Alex. Mum and dad will bring child in and, you know, we’ll call child Henry, and Henry might be a mouth breather, or he might have some issues with snotty noses waking up in the morning, or a runny nose, or he might have issues regulating his nervous system. He might have crowded teeth, of course, and all of these are signs that prompt parents to bring Henry in to see me.


And with my usual lens as a dentist, I’m looking at the teeth, and I’m thinking, oh, wouldn’t it be great to straighten these and, you know, have the jaws an optimal size so that the teeth can be straight. So that’s the whole functional dentistry, airway dentistry paradigm. But then once I started chatting to Cole, and learning more about how the cranium actually worked, particularly from an osteopathic standpoint, it was a big paradigm shift for me.


So pretty much every child that comes in to see me needs to see both Cole and I, because what I explained to parents is that what we see at the front of the face, what we see in the mouth is actually a representation of what’s going on further back. And so when the teeth are crowded, it’s usually a sign of a locked up cranial mechanism, or like there’s bones in that are jammed together that aren’t necessarily moving as well as what they could or have in the past. And so that forces the teeth to crowd or misalign as a compensation that the body naturally creates.


And so for me, it’s been a big step away from, you know, thinking that crowded teeth are a problem. And I actually explained to parents that Henry’s crowded teeth are because his body needs them to be that way. So if we’re going to, if we’re going to look at moving the teeth, we need to make sure that the body is treated as a whole, in order to make sure that not only are the teeth are aligned, but the body itself is aligned, which is hence why Cole’s work is absolutely pivotal in what we do.


[Alexx] (11:38 – 12:31)

Absolutely. And then like something I was thinking about leading up to talking to you guys was there’s the crowded teeth, and then there’s the cranial structure, and then there’s the house you’re living in and whether there’s mould contributing to the snottiness and the airways, and then there’s the food that you’re eating and whether that’s contributing to nutrient deficiencies that can then create a whole bunch of downstream effects.


Like how holistic can we go here without overwhelming people with that first visit? Because I could imagine you just want to literally say, oh my gosh, you know, this is everything we need to work on. And there would be a sensibility around that as someone who takes people on health journeys, wouldn’t they?


Because it can often be the teeth are literally the final presentation of a whole bunch of other stuff.


[Cole/Jalal] (12:31 – 14:39)

So that’s why we called it the quantum kid, because we look at every single angle, every single layer. And it’s great, because sometimes we can loop in things like a little bit of kinesiology, etc, just to kind of work out what is really getting in the way of that child overcoming the nasal obstruction and the continuous snotty nose that he’s waking up with in the morning. So Cole’s really good at playing games with the kid’s arms and with the kinesiology side of things.


And he really makes it fun for the children. And I guess the way that Cole and I operate is we tend to make friends with the kids first and foremost. And once you develop a good relationship with the kids, they’re more likely to take on what we’re advising them to do.


So it’s not just we’re making lifestyle recommendations for the parents to implement, we’re actually talking directly to the kids and giving them a sense of responsibility as well. And as you said, there’s so many things that there’s so many layers to optimal health and a healthy lifestyle these days. But sometimes we see the kids, you know, monthly over 6, 12, 18, 24 month period.


And so every month or every second month, we introduce something new to change. And so step by step, incrementally, things change at home, which help the kids on their healing journey. Beautiful.


I was going to just comment on that. There’s an osteopathic principle of thought in traditional osteopathy at least, which says, like the key lesion or the primary lesion, or the primary issue. So if you can target that one tissue, you can have a fairly global effect on the body.


But that’s thinking about structure, right? But that’s a good metaphor for all those things that you talked about as well. So you can have structural issues, which might be teeth, might be cranium, might be neck, might be breathing, for example, rib cage, you can have biochemical issues, is what you touched on.


So you can have mold, you can have dairy intolerances, blah, blah. You can also have what I’d call neurophysical, or we could just call emotional issues as well.


[Alexx] (14:39 – 14:44)

So yeah, that psycho-neuro-immuno triangle is a fantastic view.


[Cole/Jalal] (14:44 – 15:45)

And that feeds into the structure and back into the diet and all that sort of stuff. So it’s actually stepping back and going, yeah, all this has to be addressed. We’ve had it literally, like, well, how’d that one play out?


But basically it was like, yeah, but he has his Weet-Bix and milk every morning. And it’s like, you remember that one, and it’s like, oh, okay. Let’s talk about that for a bit, because that’s definitely going to cause the snot and the gut issues and all that sort of stuff.


So, and that was, it was a big piece for those parents. But it’s really about stepping back, looking at that triangle and going, yeah, which one of those things is going to have the maximum impact right now? It could be diet, but it could just be better breathing.


It could be the tongue position. It could be, you know, any number of things. So stepping back, finding that key point, and then hitting that one, and then addressing the others over time is good.


[Alexx] (15:45 – 16:49)

Such a good way to play it when you could do all the things. And I think in an age where we have access to information about all the things, it can end up either paralyzing us to do nothing, or it could perhaps make us never feel like we’re doing enough, which creates this whole other limited belief that parents can end up projecting on their kids, who can then end up feeling never good enough because they’re sick and they feel guilty about being unwell. I mean, it can be, it can be really intense.


And I guess I wanted to say those things for anyone listening out there who is in that conundrum of, oh God, what do I do? Where do I focus? Like, I often just think you just need to take a deep breath, work with someone like you guys, or whoever you’ve got in your circle, who is seeing you where you’re at, not ignoring where you’re at or deciding without asking any questions what needs to be done, and start where you feel able.


[Cole/Jalal] (16:50 – 17:37)

Yeah, and it’s hard. I mean, mums invest a lot, you know, and a mother guilt thing is something that we see a bit of, like, oh my God, I wish I hadn’t known this before, blah, blah, blah. But also the flip side of that, Alex, is mum’s intuition.


So we rely on that a lot. We listen to what the mums have to say, because often the answer is there. And they know, they know, they’re like, I tried this, but it just doesn’t feel right.


And I know there’s something else there. I know there’s something, but I don’t know what exactly it is. And it’s like, okay, tell me more.


And then they’ll give you the information right there about the primary issue. And it’s oftentimes just listening to that. But it’s also important, I think, for the mums to trust their intuition.


If it’s not quite right, then maybe it’s not quite right.


[Alexx] (17:37 – 18:36)

Yeah. And one of the big things in medicine, I just love hearing this come from a bloke, because one of the big things in medicine is women have been told not to trust themselves. And that we’re, you know, like Dr. Busconi, one of the leading neuroscientists just last week on the show talked about how even brain science in women has been often then interpreted through a behavioural psychological lens rather than what’s actually happening in their health. And I think that empowering women to be intuitive, as we often have that there, we just haven’t been allowed to trust it is brilliant. So I really appreciate you both facilitating that. Because if all health professionals did, we would get a lot further a lot faster, because that intuition is there.


It’s and it’s crazy.


[Cole/Jalal] (18:37 – 19:07)

But it is often like you say, I think Alexx clouded by too much. You know, I was thinking about this this morning, exactly what you were talking about. Like, you can you can Instagram search mouth breathing and get it was in your list of questions about how there’s so much information out there.


And which one is right, but more importantly, which one’s right for your kid right now? Because it could be it could be one of the plethora of things. So you can drown in that for sure.


[Alexx] (19:08 – 19:37)

Yeah, one thing I definitely know is anyone that’s scaring you into thinking you have to be healthier is not someone you should be following. We just we need a mental health check on this new age of limitless information, because fear, fear, unfortunately, is the algorithm. And it is also unfortunate that that is the least effective way to heal from a place of fear.


So it’s true. Work in progress.


[Cole/Jalal] (19:38 – 19:39)

Pertinent point.


[Alexx] (19:41 – 20:08)

So, Cole, I want to ask you a question about orofacial myology, given it has been seven years since we’ve spoken and given now from your collaboration as a sign and from speaking to many dentists where it’s come up, it’s obviously become quite a well-rooted therapy and course of action for a lot of kids in their health. What have you seen that you’ve been most excited about in the last seven years?


[Cole/Jalal] (20:10 – 20:13)

Well, just in my functional therapy or generally?


[Alexx] (20:14 – 20:23)

In orofacial myology and how it has actually evolved to become a really important part of the conversation.


[Cole/Jalal] (20:24 – 21:39)

It is. It is. But I say it’s also a piece.


You know what I mean? It’s like it’s been around for a long time. And at the end of the day, it’s it’s just it’s different muscles.


So the muscles of the face are much highly, much more innovated than, say, the muscles of your thigh. Yeah. But there’s just more information coming back to the brain from this area than there is from your leg, for example.


So at the end of the day, it’s skeletal muscle tissue in response to exercise. So you get a really nice response because it’s so the pathways to it is so rich. Right.


So that’s why you get these if you target it exactly to the right, like we said before, the primary lesion and they have a low tongue posture, an open mouth or something like that. Boom, you target it and and it works really well. And so then that person becomes a massive fan because it worked.


You know what I mean? But sometimes it doesn’t always work. And I think this is maybe it’s sort of I’m almost answering you with a negative.


What I’ve noticed is it’s it’s become almost over invested in as being a be all and end all.


[Alexx] (21:39 – 21:40)

Ah, yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (21:40 – 21:43)

At the end of the day, it’s it’s we love that, don’t we?


[Alexx] (21:43 – 21:47)

It’s a complimentary. Oh, this is the thing. It’s the silver bullet we’ve all been waiting for.


[Cole/Jalal] (21:47 – 23:42)

Yeah, exactly. And in many cases it is, but not in all. And some cases it’s really important, but it’s not the whole picture either.


So even I’m just thinking of a mentor, an osteopathic mentor. And we were talking about this and it was a bit of a paradigm shift for me to when he said it because he said, yes, it’s effective at overcoming craniofacial disorders and problems in one degree if the body, this is his words, if the body can overcome the strain itself. Right.


So I think like a lot of people are doing the tongue wagging and clicking and popping and all this stuff ad infinitum, but not actually overcoming, say, a structural driver that’s creating some of the problem. So it’s like, yeah, it’s like it’s it’s amazing stuff, really simple stuff, but it’s a part of the overall picture. That’s what that’s what I’ve sort of come to learn, I guess, in the last seven years.


I mean, when we talked, I was I don’t know, still an osteo student, although a lot of background in breathing, retraining and that sort of stuff. And I’ve learned probably, you know, you say, what have you done in that last seven years? I’ve learned cranial osteopathy and I practice that now, which is kind of a unique form of osteopathy.


And and I’ve found other ways and other mechanisms that can work. And yet I’ll still layer in my functional therapy as required, like sometimes straight away, sometimes later, sometimes way down the track, sometimes not at all. And I say that’s probably the exciting part.


It’s like rather than go, yeah, I’m just doing breathing, but or yes, I’m just doing my functional therapy. Yeah, I’m looking at the whole picture and now I can pick and choose which ones I need to orchestrate the result that we want. Yeah, that’s exciting to me.


[Alexx] (23:42 – 23:52)

Which comes back to what you were saying at the start of our chat, both of you around finding that that point that’s going to be the most effective place to start for that patient that you see in front of you.


[Cole/Jalal] (23:53 – 24:05)

So so there’s no algorithm where it’s like the same same way of treating every single child or every single patient. We pivot based on what we’re hearing from mother’s intuition and what we’re seeing clinically.


[Alexx] (24:05 – 24:37)

Yeah, nice. As medicine should be, dare I say. And so I want to ask you, and I don’t know who wants to take this, but as we were preparing and I was reading through the things that you guys wanted to talk about, one of the points was talking about how brain growth drives the growth of the skull.


I don’t know why I’m today years old when I’m thinking about the the reality of that happening in that order, but can you explain?


[Cole/Jalal] (24:38 – 25:19)

Because that seems seems quite huge. I have a skull here, Alex. I don’t know if everyone’s watching a video, but if you’re not, that’s OK.


I’ll try and describe it as well. But I’ve got a skull here. So so the brain, obviously, it’s like our most essential organ, right?


Like without the brain, the body’s in a bit of trouble. And it’s it’s really a miracle. Like when I was a student in the wet lab, I’ve literally picked up a human brain in my hands and just looked at it and gone, how does that work?


[Alexx] (25:20 – 25:23)

Possibly just looks like a jiggly mess.


[Cole/Jalal] (25:23 – 27:31)

Yeah. Yeah. It’s just you’re holding this tissue and it’s it’s just like, how can that possibly orchestrate all of what we are and what we encompass?


So as the brain grows, the brain box has to expand. Right. And there’s all these little expansion joints in it called cranial sutures.


Right. So as the brain grows and it’s expanding, so too it pushes on those little cranial sutures and it creates impetus for skeletal growth. Right.


And so that’s all it is. What drives the growth of the head? The growth of the brain.


Now, is there other structures around the skull and around the face that contribute massively? So there’s a big stretchy band across the top of the skull. So is it as it grows, it creates tension on the muscle at the back of the skull, on the front of the skull.


There’s muscles on the face. Right. And as you chew and breathe properly and talk, those muscles pull on the face bones and they help to balance the face bones.


So muscle force and action on bone also helps it to grow. So it’s not just like, OK, brain grows, skull grows. It’s like brain’s growing.


We need to house this thing. How do we orchestrate the correct proportion and length tension on the system to accommodate the growing brain? Yeah.


So that’s effectively how it works. Now, the back of the skull embryologically comes from a tissue that’s more dense and the front more cartilaginous, more pliable. And so that’s why that whole oral myology, breathing function, all that sort of stuff is critical because that those muscles, the bones more malleable.


So those muscles have a really strong effect on it. All right. So you need a balance between this membranous bone and this cartilaginous bone and the muscle function to allow proper symmetry and growth of the skull to house the brain, the brain box.


It actually makes sense when you think about it.


[Alexx] (27:31 – 27:48)

It does. Yeah. I just wanted to step through it because I think a lot of us don’t realize it.


And then it makes it so much more obvious why we need to pay a lot more attention to the subtleties of formations, perhaps gone wrong or disturbed through trauma, injury.


[Cole/Jalal] (27:49 – 27:49)



[Alexx] (27:49 – 27:50)



[Cole/Jalal] (27:50 – 29:16)

And that’s what I’m talking about the So you go to Joe and he just goes, oh, yeah, the teeth are crooked. Let’s straighten them up. But that’s a symptom of something else back here that’s not symmetrical.


And then you probably ask me, what is it that drives that? And the hardest, the biggest one is being born to process and the other ones smashing around when you’re growing up. Everyone bumps their heads and particularly their sacrums falls on their bunk, you know, but these things can have an impact on those growing bones.


Like Jalaa said before, they can create what we call cranial strains. Sometimes the muscle function alone will be enough to overcome those strains and sometimes you need treatment. But what we discovered is that as we use really simple devices and there’s lots of devices available on the market, but the one we use in particular, what I found just through that basically accident is that it decompresses the base of the skull.


So it takes the tension away from the base, which then allows the face to grow in proportion and harmony. So you end up with I end up happy because I can feel the kids heads working and moving out like them. And Jalaa ends up happy because they end up with these lovely straight rows of teeth.


[Alexx] (29:17 – 29:18)

Yeah, incredible.


[Cole/Jalal] (29:18 – 29:19)

And the parents are happy.


[Alexx] (29:21 – 29:21)

Sorry, say.


[Cole/Jalal] (29:22 – 29:58)

I was just going to say the parents are happy because the kid sleeps all night or doesn’t like the bed or, you know, isn’t grumpy in the morning or, you know, what was that one last week? Oh, like the mum said the teacher turned to the child. It says teacher to child feedback and said, who are you?


Oh, wow. Yeah. I don’t know who you are because the kid’s just like, yes, man.


And she does his work and does it to a great standard. And she’s like, why aren’t you causing disruption? I don’t know who you are.


And that’s when I say I’ll die happy today, Alex. So good.


[Alexx] (29:58 – 30:41)

And it’s heartbreaking then how many people end up going down behavioral and mental health roads that perhaps and I’m not saying it’s not it’s everyone. Everyone just needs you guys, you know, like no, because for me, I feel like the challenge is. For people to really know and understand that this kind of work is out there, that must be incredibly frustrating almost for you guys to see the impact you’re having close up and how amazing that feels and how incredible it is, but to also know the kids health stats out there and how much more we could be doing.


Do you ever think about like, does that keep you up at night sometimes? I’m just curious.


[Cole/Jalal] (30:42 – 31:37)

Well, we do. We do think about where we want this to go. And we’re so grateful for you sharing your platform with us so that we can share this message.


But I guess that where do we want this to go? We want it to be a standard. We want it to be something that parents walk in and say, I want a quantum kid.


I want that. I want that standard of care. And so I guess what Cole and I are doing at the moment is, is working on it, perfecting it, really streamlining it so that it’s a really predictable, robust system, which we already feel it is, but you know, we just want more and more runs on the board.


And once we get there, let’s actually perhaps look at education as well, you know, so that we can help other practitioners in other fields, actually understand that this is a very important piece of the puzzle.


[Alexx] (31:37 – 31:56)

I love that piece. Cause I know there would be a lot of pediatricians that would love that as much as, you know, then you can see people sharing information more successfully to look at quantum, to look at holistic by true definition of what holistic is every system.


[Cole/Jalal] (31:57 – 31:58)

A hundred percent.


[Alexx] (31:58 – 32:21)

Yeah. And so I, I mentioned just off the back of that brain and skull growth piece, how trauma and injury can impact. Jalal, can you speak to how that ends up showing up in, in teeth and when like you timeline a patient, how you might go, Oh, okay.


They actually had a huge fall when they were three. And here we are like, does that come up often?


[Cole/Jalal] (32:22 – 35:19)

It comes up a lot. So we’ve got this movement of the cranial bones, which basically allows the face to grow down and forwards out of the brain box. And when, when the bones are locked up because of some sort of trauma, the face just can’t grow down and forwards as well, or as much as what it wants to or needs to.


And so the face fundamentally, I mean, that’s your upper, lower jaw together. Two thirds of your face is the upper, lower jaw. So when the, when the upper jaw can’t grow properly, the lower jaw gets trapped in behind it.


So everything’s kind of stuck back and it wants to come forward. And so then the way that that presents is with, with the crowning of the teeth with, with the block nose, because if you really look at the skull, the nose is essentially a cavity or a sinus that is encased by the upper jaw. So Collins was showing that there, but the sidewall of the nose is the upper jaw and the floor of the nose is the upper jaw.


So when the upper jaw is small, not only the teeth crowded, but the nasal cavity is smaller. And so then there’s just the plumbing’s off. And so, I mean, there, there’s another big trauma, which which occurs for many, many children.


And that is braces, because what the braces do is they move the teeth in, in a, in a head that’s kind of misaligned. And so we’re locking in that misalignment. We’re locking in those cranial strains and because we’ve got a beautiful straight teeth, but the frame around the picture is a little bit off.


And so the number of young children and even adults who I see where once you kind of plug away and during the consultation and find that, you know, the timeline of things, the number of times that problems have started after clear aligners like Invisalign were finished or braces were finished or an expander was done. It’s just remarkable. It really is.


It really is one of the big, and it’s, don’t get me wrong. I mean, braces are great at straightening teeth. And most of the practitioners, all of the practitioners that are delivering braces are all very well-intentioned.


It’s just, they’re not necessarily thinking about this bigger piece, which is the head. And so really it’s about trying to educate parents about the fact that yes, the teeth are crowded, but we can’t straighten them first. First, we need to have the osteopathic side of things, nice and aligned.


And then at the end of treatment, if there’s a little bit of alignment that needs to be tidied up, then we can go and do that with some Invisalign or something like that, because the head’s already going to be nice and straight on the neck. And so you’re straightening teeth in a straight system, in a straight head, as opposed to doing it the wrong way around. So hope that answers your question.


But yeah, I consider braces now with the new lens at which I look at things as a significant trauma.


[Alexx] (35:20 – 36:01)

Wow. Yeah. I’m so glad this came up because it’s something we talk about often in our club membership and parents trying to navigate that, okay, we’ve been told we need the plate, or we’ve been told we need the braces, or my kid wants braces because they’re getting teased maybe for their crooked teeth or whatever, wherever it’s coming from.


It’s a common conversation parents have as kids grow up. And so what is the best way to explore that topic now that you guys know what you know? So a kid has crooked teeth, where do we start?


[Cole/Jalal] (36:02 – 37:39)

Yeah, exactly. And that’s the question, because I guarantee you somewhere along that line, wherever the kid’s like say nine years old, somewhere along that line, you’ll find the cause of that issue that they’re dealing with. So then it’s just about searching through that history, working with the child, listening to the parents, finding what that cause of the of the teeth issue is, or the, you know, it’s not a it’s not an expander deficiency.


An expander might be part of the treatment for that. But that’s not the root cause. So finding that that piece, is it the wee fix of milk, you know, or is it is it birth strain?


Is it the, you know, classic one, a kid fell off a slide fell onto her sacrum. This is an actual thing on really hard ground at 18 months, and she was about, I don’t know, six-ish when I saw her. And she had ear infections ever since.


But the mum hadn’t pieced those two things together, had to sort of go back and what happened, she must have fallen on the sacrum at some point. And boom, there’s that, there’s that link. So blocked ears, ear infections, you know, mouth breathing, blocked sinuses, the whole drainage issue, lymphatics overloaded, tonsils might swell up, you know, and then therefore, you’ve got the mouth breathing kid that’s looking for help, and no one can help.


But it actually comes right back down to that original real big stack.


[Alexx] (37:40 – 37:41)

Yeah, wow.


[Cole/Jalal] (37:41 – 38:03)

Because, because if we don’t tackle that, that primary, that primary stack, you’re never going to win. And so we can straighten the teeth, but then the teeth move back. So we call that orthodontic relapse.


And so, breathing program, and it’s like, still, he or she’s failed the breathing program, you know.


[Alexx] (38:03 – 38:13)

And there comes that kind of lack, and I’m never going to be good enough. And it’s me, and it’s my problem. But it’s actually just a timelining issue where we haven’t pinpointed the thing.


[Cole/Jalal] (38:15 – 38:16)

Pinpointing, it’s exactly it.


[Alexx] (38:18 – 39:12)

Fascinating. So you could literally just like, I’m just remembering one thing that happened to me when I was a teenager. I can’t remember what age, I’m certainly not going to try and timeline anything health wise to it.


But just as an example, garage door was opening, Distracted Alexx was probably singing. And it was one of those automatic doors, and it hit my head, and it hit my head really hard, like right there. Big headache, lay down, you know, end of story in that situation.


And because I can’t remember, but could, could it be that these sorts of things that we just kind of brush off, have a rest, recover in inverted commas from and move on, can actually then create like a micro maladjustment that can set off a chain of events, like the sacrum fall, or, you know, whatever else it might look like?


[Cole/Jalal] (39:14 – 40:19)

No, it could. But one of the questions I always ask parents is like, because we have a box in our intake and now like templates that we use, which says major falls hospitalisations. So I usually say, have they had it?


Did Alexx have any big stacks growing up? I’m not talking about like little bumps and knocks, I’m talking about the ones where, you know, there was tears, there was blackouts, you considered going to hospital, or you did go to hospital, like really, really big ones, you know, they’re usually the ones that will cause the the undiscoverable issues, if you know what I mean, where you’re bouncing around, and no one really knows what it is that the issue is, until someone asks the right question.


But little knocks like that, they can, but repetitive micro traumas, if you like, like ones that are not too serious, like not going to hospital, getting a light shine in your eyes. But if you get repetitive traumas like that, it can have a cumulative effect. And that can cause it.


But it’s, but I don’t know, Jalal might have something different.


[Alexx] (40:20 – 40:30)

Yeah, more like the rugby playing team, where it would be like, time after time, after time every week, having a bump and a knock and a this. Yeah, okay.


[Cole/Jalal] (40:30 – 40:58)

Yeah, but I just search that primary one, I usually go tell me about the real bad ones. Or like the other really obvious one. And this isn’t a guilt thing either to mums, by the way, but like, what was Alex’s birth like, you know?


Was it long? Was it emergency c-section? You know, that gives a lot of clues as to how the skull was affected as it came through the birth.


[Alexx] (40:59 – 41:55)

Okay, so can I ask a question about emergency c-section? Because funny story. My sister, my mum, myself, and my grandmother have all had, try, try, try, try, try, try, do everything, speed it up, all the hormones to try and get the contractions faster, louder, bigger, open things up, nothing, all sunroof babies in the end.


And so what, because I’m sure I’m not alone, and what, what would someone potentially be exploring if that was a birth story? Like the baby’s literally stuck going, I’m not going to make it through here. It ain’t happening.


And then eventually a sunroof. Sorry, that’s so not medically technical, but I guess just trying to lighten up a c-section.


[Cole/Jalal] (41:56 – 42:03)

Yeah, well, there’s, there’s a few things to comment on there. And I don’t know, two blokes commenting on childbirth.


[Alexx] (42:04 – 42:23)

I am giving you full permission as health professionals to discuss this. No, it’s not. It’s not.


I think we have this, we also have this fear that like, oh no, I don’t want to say anything about a woman’s experience, but if you’re a health professional, who’s trained in something like go for it.


[Cole/Jalal] (42:23 – 43:10)

I’ll say, I’ll say something here. So first thing is infant mortality in this country is very, very low. So childbirth now compared to where we used to be with it is a lot more, I don’t know if safe is quite the word, but, but there’s, there’s a lot of care around it so that the birthing event is the best it can be, right?


Like people work very, very hard to make sure that we’re not losing mums and babies. And that’s point number one. That’s really, really important.


I’m very grateful for it. Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m saying.


Cause you know, your kids and yourself, right?


[Alexx] (43:10 – 43:11)

Yeah. Yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (43:15 – 46:25)

That’s it. It would have been to be honest. And so we don’t hear of that these days, but we’re all happy to sort of bash on and, and, and criticise the medical system for over medicalising birth.


And, and in part that’s true. I’ve had four more kids. I’ve watched two different, two women birth by one of my kids and then three of the others.


So I’ve had an experience from, from watching and one, some have been more medicalised and some have been completely unmedicalised. Kind of 50, 50, I guess. So the next thing about the C-section intervention is actually the mum herself.


So after that, you’ll have a scar tissue across your abdomen, scar across the abdomen. And I treat those type of scars a lot because what they can do is they can shut down the abdominal wall function. So that’s the second part of it.


The third part of it is, is depends how long the child’s been engaged in that labour. This is a big piece. So if it’s an elective C-section, the biggest difference physiologically with C-section birth is that there’s no compression through the birth canal of the baby’s head.


So as the baby comes born, that compression vector then pops and opens out, which creates a it’s a serious cascade of, of neurophysical events. But in a C-section, the baby’s pulled out if their, if their head is engaged and you’ve got like almost like a vacuum vector through the head, which is the opposite. Makes sense.


And so what that can do, it’s not, it’s not always, it’s not a hard and fast rule, but what it can do is cause just a little bit of almost like a suction on the back of the head. And it causes a little bit of more of a flatter head and a little bit of sort of the side bones called parietal bones, just poking out just a smidge. And they usually resolve, but sometimes they need a bit of help too.


So that’s the first thing with elective, but the, the, the kids that get compressed for like 20, 30, 10, 15, you know, like a long time. And then the labour doesn’t go according to plan. And then they’ll do what you call emergency C-section.


They’re the ones that actually have the, the, the issues and need to treatment early on. Okay. So if you’ve had one of those kids and you haven’t had like some sort of cranial work and you’re having trouble with your kid, that could be a good clue.


So they get compression vector, but then they get vacuum vector. So they’ve had a double whammy of forces through their skull. And they’re oftentimes the ones that we get, and they bounced around and, you know, had tried this, we tried this, we tried this, and you grab, you just feeling their skull.


And it’s like, okay, there’s the birth process. Let’s see if we can treat these birth strains. And we often use dental devices to hold or continue the treatment while the child’s asleep, instead of getting continual hands-on work.


[Alexx] (46:26 – 46:42)

Yeah. I just feel so grateful that the chiro was the first place I went after, I think he saw a chiro before he saw our GP after my birth. Cause I thought, yeah, that’s, that’s going to need a little work.


[Cole/Jalal] (46:43 – 46:46)

I hope you got the work too.


[Alexx] (46:46 – 48:16)

Oh yeah. No, I, yeah. Religiously.


Don’t worry about me. I have a chiro and an osteo and a physio. I just, I genuinely think there are just so many wonders to being proactive with our musculoskeletal system and the flow on effects that good alignment actually has throughout the rest of our lives and health.


And interestingly, when I was seeing those sorts of health professionals, the least was when I was needing to work with other types of health professionals during the toxicity time. And because you had to, I mean, you can’t, it’s so expensive to try and keep, you know, piling people on. And I’m really always sensitive to that cost factor for people when making recommendations, right.


And it’s, it’s something that’s a reality for everybody. Yeah. I don’t doubt that it would have been far faster healing had I had those sorts of health professionals continuing to be in place.


Alignment is everything. Yeah. Big believer.


I’m wearing the t-shirt. Jalal, can I ask you, when you do a dentistry degree, did anything that Cole talked to you about in terms of like, let’s say a birth experience and how it might impact the shape of a skull and therefore teeth, bones, jaw, is that something talked about in dentist school?


[Cole/Jalal] (48:18 – 49:06)

Unfortunately, no. So there’s no importance or mention of that whatsoever. We do anatomy, we do study about the cranial bones, but we’re kind of taught that the bones are fused at adult age.


And once they’re fused, once the sutures fuse, that’s it. And so there’s no real concept of these cranial rhythms. There’s no real concept of how traumas in the head, in the body, in the sacrum can, can impact what we see at the front.


So it’s, I’ve kind of had to almost die as a clinician and, and, and, and be reborn in terms of the way that I think about the mouth, which is, which is, I guess, a credit to just having a curiosity. Yeah.


[Alexx] (49:06 – 49:07)

I was going to ask you where it came from.


[Cole/Jalal] (49:08 – 49:27)

Just a curiosity and dare I say it also just a bit of humility to, to appreciate that. I don’t know everything. I don’t know everything about dentistry, even though I’ve done a dental degree and I guess a big drive just to be the best version of myself as a clinician so that I can serve my patients best.


[Alexx] (49:28 – 50:04)

Awesome. I want to talk about growth now. It feels like we’ve kind of been leading up to it anyway, in terms of mechanical growth versus physiological or biometric growth.


So we’re born, we’ve done that part. And then like all the different pieces that play into growing and therefore what we might need to do or how we might observe that something’s not gone as smoothly as it should have perhaps in, in one of those ways of growing.


[Cole/Jalal] (50:05 – 54:49)

Yeah. So, I mean, if we think about growth, there’s kind of like the body has its own mechanisms inside of it, which drive growth, but it’s still, it still needs to take cues from the environment as well. And so those cues are food that’s sunlight or safe and responsible sunlight that’s grounding, that’s immersing yourself in nature.


That’s minimizing artificial lights. All those types of things are important environmental cues coming in through the eyes, through the gut, on the skin, the major surfaces, which our body uses to interact with the environment. And it sends that through to the hypothalamus.


It sends that through to the, you know, the brain-gut connection via the vagus nerve up to the brain. And so the brain’s enabled to compute all this information and then pass that onto the body’s, I guess, growth system, which is central nervous system. It’s the rhythmic movement of the cranial bones.


And what I’m seeing in the way that I was previously practicing and what some of my colleagues are practicing is this focus on mechanical growth, where we are kind of placing dental appliances in children’s mouths and having mothers and fathers turn a screw once a week, twice a week, daily in some cases. And I guess forcing our way into growing that jaw to a size, which we think is right. So, I mean, there’s a few questions that pop up there.


Number one, when do we stop? When do we stop expanding? And the answer to that is when the dentist says.


So it’s a completely arbitrary decision that the dentist makes in terms of when it needs to be stopped. And then the second question that springs to my mind is, are we over-expanding in some children? Because if we’re going to grow faces in a mechanical way, are we growing them in such a way where it’s like not necessarily sensitive to that person’s particular body type?


Like some people are six foot, some people are five foot, some people are a little bit wider, some people are a little bit thinner. And so all those different people have different mouths to match. And that’s just the way that God intended.


So, if we are expanding every single child to an algorithm, which is to a spec. Yeah, exactly. Then we’ve got, Cole’s got the same mouth that I do.


And it might suit Cole, but it might not suit me because it’s too big for me. And so then my cranium’s not happy with that. So the way that Cole and I work is, I guess there’s a big respect given to the environmental cues that the body takes, the body’s own growth mechanism.


And with that respect comes a practice which doesn’t try to get in the way of the body’s own growth mechanism, but more helps to amplify it and help it express. And so with the dental appliances, the way we use them is we use them to help decompress and unload the cranium. And so then the cranium can start to function as well as what it usually does.


The cerebrospinal fluid can start to pump up and down the central nervous system. And once that is unloaded and functioning well, then the face just grows naturally by default. So we’re not using the dental appliances to grow the mouth, we’re using the dental appliances to unload the cranium and then the reciprocal effect of the unloaded cranium allowing the face to grow.


And so we call it kind of this physiological growth or this biomimetic approach, we’re kind of mimicking the forces that biology would use. And so how do we know, how do Cole and I know then when to stop? Because the body tells us.


The body tells us when we’ve achieved a suitable expansion for a child. The body tells us when we’ve achieved whatever we needed to achieve from a cranial, dental, facial standpoint. So then how can I possibly know as a dentist when to stop?


Because I’m not trained to help feel cranial rhythms and things like that. And so that’s why I work with Cole, because he’s got that skill, he’s got that touch, he’s got that intention, and he’s able to give me that live biofeedback to say, Jelan, look, I reckon Henry’s done, he’s ready to go. He’s had a really good 10 months and we’ve achieved a lot.


We’ve helped his breathing, we’ve helped clear his nose, he’s thriving, he’s running faster, he’s playing basketball better, you know, he’s now, you know, kick us, sorry, kick us. It’s fine.


[Alexx] (54:50 – 54:51)

People have said far worse.


[Cole/Jalal] (54:53 – 55:01)

He’s a kick-ass set of midfielders. So, you know, and then we’re done. So it’s really about these teachers asking him who he is.


[Alexx] (55:02 – 55:06)

That’s just go, Henry. This is, it’s so exciting to know.


[Cole/Jalal] (55:06 – 55:07)

He’s a good kid that Henry.


[Alexx] (55:07 – 56:33)

Yeah. My little default character is Johnny. So it’s actually nice to bring Henry into the mix for a change.


So is it then, so that I’ve really understood this and we’ve all understood this as we listen, we know when to stop because we’re following a patient more closely than say conventional dentistry or musculoskeletal health professionals as well. There are conventional versions of everybody would go, Oh, I’ve finished the program and, you know, two years is the max for braces. So we’re done now or two years is the max for this.


So we’re done now or, you know, all that, those kinds of usual timelines, but because you guys know the patients much more closely and, you know, from having done the case history and the symptomology and getting the feedback from the parents about how they’re doing academically, coordination, nervous system, all the things it’s matching up with what you’re seeing and you think might nearly be bye-bye time. And that’s how, you know, for sure.


So it’s almost like this brilliant extra layer of validation for the processes that you hope and believe shall work. And then you get so much more feedback as to them actually doing that.


[Cole/Jalal] (56:34 – 57:33)

A hundred percent. We see the symptoms resolve and we see what we see changes structurally that we wanted to see, but there’s also one very easy tell, which is that like with the appliances that we use, particularly in the youngsters, there’s like eight or nine different sizes. And so, and those sizes are incrementally like 25, 30.


So there are increments of five. So someone might be at a, at a size 60 and it might be a small frame young girl and we move her to a 65 and it just locks up the cranium. And so then we’re like, okay, well, why is it locking up the cranium?


Is there another layer of strains that needs to be released? And Colm might feel the cranium is like, well, the cranium is good. The sacrum is good.


She’s breathing well. So then we’re like, well, would that moving her up to a 65 actually be just an overexpansion? And so the body’s telling us don’t go any further.


So that’s, that’s another kind of tell. Yeah.


[Alexx] (57:33 – 57:36)

You’ve hit the sweet spot for this person’s body. Yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (57:36 – 58:07)

I think one of the words that I’ll say was biomimetic. So what does that mean? Biolife mimetic means mirroring, right?


So what the biomimetic approach does, what those appliances actually designed to do is, is to mirror those growth forces that I was talking about. And one of the key things is what we use is we don’t have them on in the day, like traditional braces, expanders and so forth. They just pop the appliance in at night.


[Alexx] (58:07 – 58:10)

And is this like a myobrace that we’re talking about or similar?


[Cole/Jalal] (58:10 – 59:30)

It’s called the vivoste guides for kids. It’s different to myobrace. Myobrace is a great system, but I’ve tested it cranially and it doesn’t do what these things do.


So we work with these things. But why would you just have it overnight? And the answer to that question is growth.


That’s when the growth occurs. So growth hormone is regeneration. Yeah.


And this is why a light environment is so important because as the sun’s going down in towards the afternoon, growth hormone starts to be released, ready for the nighttime. So, excuse me, you put that device in overnight and those natural growth forces are occurring while the child’s asleep, growth and repair. When they wake up, they actually go and break the tissue down.


That’s what we do. We wake up, we move and we use our brain and we use up sugar and we eat all those processes. Then we sleep and we rest, recover and grow.


Right. That’s how you get stronger if you’re doing weight training, for example. Same thing with craniofacial growth.


And how do you know, like, how do I know that, you know, your child should have a size 10 shoe? You know, should we all go, should we push every child into size 10 because Alexx Stewart’s kids has a size 10? I don’t know if they do or they don’t.


[Alexx] (59:30 – 59:32)

Actually, he does right now. There we go.


[Cole/Jalal] (59:32 – 1:00:19)

It’s going to change tomorrow. But yeah, well, you can have it. You can have a bit of an idea like, like, like I got recently, you know, I’m told my partner’s told my kids are probably going to be tall.


So they’re going to be probably more towards that 40 mil, the magic number that everyone sort of talks about at the moment. But but someone whose kids are smaller and slighter, they’re not going to have a size 10 foot. They might have a size eight foot.


You don’t really know where that foot’s going to start. But you’ve got a pretty good idea that it’s going to be small, medium or large. So if there’s a danger of pushing it too far based on an algorithm, it’s like putting a brace on a foot and trying to stretch it out to a size 10.


Because that’s what Alex’s kids have.


[Alexx] (1:00:19 – 1:00:21)

Or that’s what we should all be going for.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:00:22 – 1:00:31)

It doesn’t make sense. Yeah, it just if you just think about it, just clear all the data and everything else and just think about it makes sense. You know what I mean?


[Alexx] (1:00:31 – 1:01:10)

Yeah, 100%. And so can we talk a bit? We’ve only got 10 minutes left.


And I’m conscious of that. And breathing is so flipping important and yet has never been less understood, more panicked about am I breathing right? Is it am I doing the right protocol?


Do I do the mouth tape? What if my kid what if my husband doesn’t want my kid to do the like all the things everyone’s freaking out. About breathwork and who do you follow with the breathwork?


And oh, no, no, no, you can’t do that anymore. It’s not about the oxygenation about something else and help us feel calm. Is that what you’re getting?


[Cole/Jalal] (1:01:11 – 1:01:13)

You’re getting that on the ground Alex?


[Alexx] (1:01:13 – 1:02:04)

I see a lot of conversations online. And I often feel like you know, I started the low tox movement. It was what 15 years ago now that was a long time.


So at least I’m very grateful to not seem like a hippie weirdo anymore, because it’s a lot more mainstream than it was. But what I’m now seeing in the age of limitless information and people needing to protocolize theories to then be able to sell something online, you then have competing protocols and where do I look and oh, but they’ve got more reviews or you know, I feel like we’re going down the wrong rabbit holes. For something that actually should be quite an exciting, relaxed curiosity to get better at.


Does that make sense?


[Cole/Jalal] (1:02:05 – 1:03:13)

It does. Yeah. Yeah.


I think we talked about this with Dr. Ron, I’m sure you know, Dr. Ron. Yeah, he’s an absolute guru. Awesome.


But I said, well, you know, Ron, I think the mouth breathing piece is actually functional. And he’s like, tell me more about that. It’s it’s the body has to breathe, right?


We all know that we’ve all heard that on the podcast. Many times we’ve read that many times in posts, blah, blah, blah. But it’s true.


So if the body is mouth breathing, then that’s a functional compensation. It’s doing that for a reason. So the first thing is to respect the body’s natural inherent healing capacity.


Okay, let’s let’s stop the panic and go that right now is what’s needed. And it’s sort of I mean, I’m kind of saying the same thing again, Alex, but like, if you find the key reason why that functional compensation is there, and you can heal it, the body, especially in kids, like us, we’re a bit we’re a bit sort of more set now.


[Alexx] (1:03:13 – 1:03:14)

We take a little longer to come around.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:03:15 – 1:03:36)

We have to do more with the kids, if you can find the key physiological inputs to why their mouth breathing and address them. And yes, sometimes, unfortunately, they might be in large tonsils that need to have surgery, you know, like, it’s not what everyone wants to hear. But sometimes that’s the case.


[Alexx] (1:03:36 – 1:03:57)

Not all the time. Thank you for saying that. Because I think we often demonize Oh, yeah, you know, it was just an ENT decided to rip everything out.


But I mean, it is what it is for the kid that is. And if that is the major block for their healing and improvement, then thank God we’ve got that kind of technology these days. This is where modern medicine can be amazing.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:03:57 – 1:05:20)

Exactly. And they’re highly skilled technicians, you can’t get to operate on some structures that small without being super highly skilled. So when we need them, they’re awesome.


And so but that’s just one reason. So the especially in children, there’s a there’s a drive for the body to heal and be as physiologically normal as it can be. So it’s just removing the obstacle with the kids.


And that’s just finding which one it is. But you’re not going to find that on Instagram. Unfortunately, you have to, you have to think of a few key things in that in the child that could be driving that.


And we’ve touched on. So we said structurally, what is it? It could be the tonsils and adenoids.


Biochemically, what is it? It could be gluten, it could be dairy, it could be mold, you know, it could be sprays, all the things you talk about, that could definitely be it. I can tell you one kid who was bedwetting two times a night.


And I and I said, just get him off anything that comes out of a cow. And it will get worse for two weeks. And then it’ll heal up.


And it’s exactly what happened. And the dad’s just like, he’s actually my mechanic. And he hooks me in.


And I was like, can you do my car service? He’s like, yeah, bring it in anytime. Because the kids stop the bedwetting.


[Alexx] (1:05:20 – 1:05:36)

I mean, you know, but if you grow up in this culture, then you’ve probably never been exposed to the fact that 60% of us don’t have the enzymes to break down dairy. And so you just wouldn’t know because you see your Wheat Bix and milk kid ad. And then you just think, well, that is what breakfast looks like for us.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:05:36 – 1:06:40)

And then I’ll go out on a limb and we’ll address that emotional thing. So 50% of families are separated these days. Let’s be pragmatic.


Is that stressful on kids? Yes, it is. Can that stress change their breathing pattern?


Yes, it can. We’ll do that in all cases, guys. No, it’s all right.


It’s all right. It might not be the cause. But can it be a contributor to it?


Yes. How do you address it by actually doing breathing retraining with kids? And then the system goes, okay, and they’re what Jill I’ve talked about before, their vagus nerve times up.


I can feel safe. Yeah, they can feel more safe. And then that all works, you know, and all of a sudden, oh, yeah, it’s great now that we’ve got rid of all the sprays and we’ve cleaned our house of mold and what we’ve moved or whatever.


And now that the child’s like so much happier, I can’t recognize them. Yeah. So it’s a it’s a big, big piece.


And it is so critical. The breathing is so critical. Just when I did breathing alone, I used to see stupid changes in kids.


I’ve just been like, what?


[Alexx] (1:06:40 – 1:08:11)

I remember. Well, that was the cornerstone of our initial conversation. And it just and the amount of people that worked with you afterwards that were doing like our go low toxic or something like that.


And he’d be saying, oh, yeah, I’m seeing coal. And, you know, my kid turns out they don’t have OCD or turns out that. And again, I am not saying stop medications, you know, start breathing like that is it is absolutely essential that you speak to your health professionals if you want to make any changes, but to just open you up to her to a job.


And so what happens? Hundred percent. Yeah.


And so let’s just say someone wanted to explore working with their kid on feeling safe, because I feel like a lot of little kids in modern times, you know, the Internet has added this whole extra piece of either pressure or seeing things you shouldn’t be saying to young or way too much blue light, way too far into the night, which keeps you in a much more alert state, lower melatonin state. What could be a really great exercise to finish with that? I’m going to get you each to share something you love to recommend that people can start practicing with their kids to to just feel like breathing is a priority, but also a wonderful thing to spend time working on.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:08:12 – 1:09:41)

Yeah, I guess I’ll give you my quick thing. There’s three things to make a kid feel safe. One is one is color.


So if you look at this wall behind me in my clinic, it used to be white and kids would come in and they’d be like tetchy, nervous, whingy, clingy. I painted it that color, that green color, put those little bright pictures on the walls, kids have different temperament altogether. So this is to do with vagal tone.


So color is really important. Yeah, wild huh? Noise is another one.


Okay, so low, deep rumbling noises trigger like a sympathetic, a parasympathetic inhibition, so it’d be the inability to relax. So calm voices, calm spaces, not heavy metal music, just like as noise is really critical, especially to young kids. And the other one, believe it or not, is facial expression, facial cues, what we call facial cues of safety.


So kids look at our faces and they can pick up and they mimic and that help either decreases or increases their vagal tone. So it either makes them feel safer or less safe. So coming back to it, and we’re all guilty of it.


If I’m peering into a screen and my kids peering into a screen, whose facial cues they picking up on? Nobody’s.


[Alexx] (1:09:41 – 1:09:42)

Peppa Pig.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:09:42 – 1:09:45)

They’re not learning, Peppa Pig doesn’t have any facial cues.


[Alexx] (1:09:45 – 1:09:46)

Blueys, yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:09:46 – 1:10:03)

They don’t have facial cues of safety and they’re kind of loud, like they’re kind of like, you know, I don’t know about you, but TV annoys the crap out of me. I don’t have one. I haven’t had one for 15 years.


Literally have no TV. My son’s 13. He’s never had a TV in his house ever.


[Alexx] (1:10:03 – 1:10:04)

Yeah, wow.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:10:05 – 1:10:38)

Yeah. And so was that actually disrupts that whole system. And it’s very unconscious.


We’re so brainwashed into it. So yeah, color and design, you know, beautiful spaces, calm spaces, not too much noise, not too much extrinsic noise, you know, and facial cues of safety and voice intonation, you know, really key things we can all work on, which will actually just downregulate a child’s breathing straight away. Like my green wall’s a great example, which I’ll share with you a whole bunch of other stuff.


[Alexx] (1:10:38 – 1:10:40)

Get that feature wall happening.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:10:41 – 1:10:46)

Yeah. The right color, the right color. If it was bright red, it’s not good.


[Alexx] (1:10:46 – 1:10:52)

No, I can see how that’d be quite intense. Okay. And Jalal, what’s your, your pro tip?


[Cole/Jalal] (1:10:53 – 1:12:47)

My pro tips. Well, Cole’s done a great job. I really love all that he’s mentioned.


I think for me, if we think about regulating nervous systems a little bit better and helping the kids stay calm, I think some of this breath work, I mean, Cole’s done this amazing online breathing course, which my kids have really benefited from. So my children are going through the quantum kid program as well. And my son in particular, he’s really benefited from just the first exercise that is delivered, delivered in the course.


So I think some breath work, which is easy for children to do, it’s easy to understand. It’s not some sort of fancy, you know, college degree type course. That could be something.


I think morning sun is really, really important for resetting hormones, resetting circadian rhythms, balancing out any artificial blue light that might have, that might have, you know, they may have been exposed to the night before. So for me, morning sun and grounding is absolutely pivotal. I do that every morning, practically.


And I will say blocking the blue light in the nighttime, so being really strict. And so for parents to help children block the blue light, they’ve got to block the blue light themselves. So whether that’s wearing glasses, whether that’s having mood lighting on or candles or red lamps on, but light is really the biggest driver of the way that we operate at a physiological level.


And we need to be doing our best to mimic the natural cycles of light, because this impacts cortisol, this impacts dopamine, this impacts melatonin, as you’ve touched on. And if we do our best to copy the nature of the light outside, so if it’s dark, it means our home should be dark. It’s going to have a really beneficial effect on helping children overcome some of the challenges that they have in society growing up these days.


[Alexx] (1:12:48 – 1:14:31)

A hundred percent. And, you know, it can get tricky as I get older. I am an avid Formula One person.


The things that you have no control over what the passions are that develop. And so that’s been really interesting to navigate as he’s decided I’m going to save up and I’m going to buy myself a reconditioned PS5 so that I can play the Formula One game. And he’s been obsessed with it for months.


And it’s been a really beautiful delayed gratification journey for him to actually just work on this one thing until he got it. So there’s a lot of healthy aspects to it, but I noticed as soon as it arrived in the house, wake up, dark sitting room, which is at the back of the apartment. So the orientation means it’s the darkest room in the house and video game.


And he knows he’s only allowed to play for a total of 90 minutes over the weekend. He can choose when that happens. But I had to add an additional condition, which was first thing in the morning, you have to get outside, have a big glass of water and do some physical activity.


I don’t care whether you push out a few squats and push ups or do a plank or go for a walk around the block with the dog, whatever it looks like, you have to be out there for at least 15 minutes drinking water and welcoming the day before you go into video game caves for your little 90 minute showdown. And I think we have to remember that we’re in charge as parents. Those tips aren’t nice to have.


They’re actually a part of our responsibility to make sure of.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:14:32 – 1:15:36)

I think you made a great point there about delayed gratification too, because this is opening another can of worms, but video games in particular give instant little hits of achieving goals. And so it actually screws with the mechanism of executive functioning, which is the ability to go, if I do this, then I’ll achieve that and then I’ll achieve that. So it creates this like, I want now, now, now, now, now, now, now, which is what our gizmos give us.


We flick on Instagram, we go, oh, we’ve got five likes, yay. And then we can, and 24 seven, there it is. It’s like instant, instant, instant.


And so what the video games do is they condition that instantness, if that’s a word, into a kid’s neurophysical. And what you did, I think is really commendable because you made him work, plan, save, and then he got his goal, but then he gave him parameters around that. I think that’s really commendable.


[Alexx] (1:15:39 – 1:16:02)

I’m really just winging it here. Don’t worry. It’s, it’s not like I had this, this huge plan sometimes as parents, as we all know, as parents, things happen.


And then you see a red flag and you think, oh, if I don’t intervene here and set up a boundary or set up a, okay, well that’s happening, but this is how we’ve got to do that. If you want that to happen. Yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:16:02 – 1:16:10)

I think that’s really fair because that’s how they’ll treat people around them and their partners and their kids is that when they have them, you know what I mean?


[Alexx] (1:16:11 – 1:17:00)

Well, I feel like we’ve started a part two of a parenting podcast, really just opening that up, but I just want to say thank you both for you know, taking the leap and collaborating. Cause I think it’s a really fantastic collaboration. The more the more health professionals weave into each other’s tapestries to realise, like actually we just all have so much to contribute and and do our best for, for patients and clients the better.


And so congrats on quantum kid. And thank you for sharing some of the ways that collaborating through various professionals experiences can benefit people. Cause I think that really is just such a huge overarching message of all of this.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:17:01 – 1:17:04)

Conditions talk to each other.


[Alexx] (1:17:04 – 1:17:05)

I know. Yeah.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:17:06 – 1:17:21)

Medicine 2.0. Same to you as well, Alex, like seven years ago, like you said, it seems like it was only yesterday, but it’s quite a long time and you’re still getting this message out there and helping mums. It’s brilliant.


[Alexx] (1:17:21 – 1:17:25)

Yeah. I know. I sometimes think, will I ever run out of topics?


[Cole/Jalal] (1:17:26 – 1:17:31)

Nope. Let’s go back to the 15 years and start at the start again.


[Alexx] (1:17:31 – 1:17:33)

Start again. Thanks guys.


[Cole/Jalal] (1:17:34 – 1:17:35)

Thank you so much, Alex.


[Alexx] (1:17:35 – 1:20:31)

I hope you loved today’s show as much as I loved bringing it to you. I want to remind you that if you are someone who craves a low-tox community, that is judgment-free full of empowerment has health professionals and building health professionals that can support you as well as me in their answering questions multiple times a week. I want to invite you to join the low-tox club for the price of less than a cup of coffee a month.


You have an annual membership for $49 Australian. So it’s about $30 U S or Euro that allows you to have a member masterclass every single month with a health professional or global expert from the podcast, where we have them to ourselves for an hour to ask questions and deep dive further. You have the beautiful supportive chat group.


You have Q and A’s with me, me answering questions. We read books and talk about them and a whole bunch more. You can head to, hit the explore tab and join the club is the very first option on that list. Of course, we have over 10 evergreen courses that you can jump into any time, whether it’s navigating everyday low-tox swaps with our go low-tox signature course, whether you have kids and you’re wanting to know how to best support them with our low-tox kids course, whether you’re planning a family and looking at a healthy low-tox preconception journey, reducing inflammation, especially the chronic kind without inflammation ninja course, many, many other courses.


You can again, head to, hit the courses tab and you’ll see all of the options, which includes a business course, my low-tox method program. A lot of people don’t know, but I was doing a lot before starting low-tox life in 2009. And I was a business consultant across hospitality, health, retail and cosmetics.


I have been in business consulting for a very long time. So I absolutely adore helping people move into the low-tox space or develop their low-tox businesses. So that’s a way I can support you.


And then of course, there’s our wonderful social media communities at lowtoxlife on Instagram. And of course the website with over 250 gluten-free recipes, blogs, downloadable PDFs to help you navigate wanting to get rid of synthetic fragrances in your school or office. I could go on.


So head to, see what takes your interest or fancy. And thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community. I love, love, love reading your reviews.


I appreciate every follow and subscribe. And I want to just remind you to finish off that. If there’s anything you heard that you found interesting from medical or scientific perspective, it is intended as education only.


Please always chat to a health professional who knows you and your situation best. I’ll see you next week. Bye.

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